Comments on: A Series Of Unlikely Explanations http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/ Just these guys, you know. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:42:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Khan http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2466 Khan Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:14:52 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2466 I remember the giddy days of both CoH and WoW when those worlds were new and wonderous. I don't think those days are coming back. When I've seen behind the curtain already, there really isn't a show a game can put on where the little voice in my head (one of them, anyway) isn't going to be pointing out the mechanics. "It's another #$%ing kill quest." "That's a FedEx quest." "Ten more points of defense and I'll be uncrushable." I'm sure WAR will be a great game but I'm not likely to sign up for it until a couple months after release if at all. Right now the game I'm in (LotRO) provides the gaming things that matter most to me (ESAK). I get to explore and socialize in one of the best fantasy worlds ever created. I don't see WAR topping that. Not for me, anyway. Like other posters here, I'm extremely leary of the hype machines of most companies (not just MMO ones). I remember the giddy days of both CoH and WoW when those worlds were new and wonderous. I don’t think those days are coming back. When I’ve seen behind the curtain already, there really isn’t a show a game can put on where the little voice in my head (one of them, anyway) isn’t going to be pointing out the mechanics. “It’s another #$%ing kill quest.” “That’s a FedEx quest.” “Ten more points of defense and I’ll be uncrushable.”

I’m sure WAR will be a great game but I’m not likely to sign up for it until a couple months after release if at all. Right now the game I’m in (LotRO) provides the gaming things that matter most to me (ESAK). I get to explore and socialize in one of the best fantasy worlds ever created. I don’t see WAR topping that. Not for me, anyway.

Like other posters here, I’m extremely leary of the hype machines of most companies (not just MMO ones).

]]> By: Zoso http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2465 Zoso Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:54:17 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2465 @Elf - Hmm, you're right, when I pick up a new FPS I'm not thinking "oh no, I've got a gun, I'll probably have to shoot ten people/demons/aliens, then shoot another ten people/demons/aliens, then..." Then again, it's a rare FPS that I'd play for more than a couple of weeks, or a month (since UT2k4, at least). @Saylah - Verniere-itis sounds about right. I'm trying not to pin all my hopes on Warhammer for fear of crushing it under the weight of expectation, but my inner child from 20 years back gazing at the Holy Text of Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd Edition is getting a bit giddy... @Elf – Hmm, you’re right, when I pick up a new FPS I’m not thinking “oh no, I’ve got a gun, I’ll probably have to shoot ten people/demons/aliens, then shoot another ten people/demons/aliens, then…” Then again, it’s a rare FPS that I’d play for more than a couple of weeks, or a month (since UT2k4, at least).

@Saylah – Verniere-itis sounds about right. I’m trying not to pin all my hopes on Warhammer for fear of crushing it under the weight of expectation, but my inner child from 20 years back gazing at the Holy Text of Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd Edition is getting a bit giddy…

]]> By: Saylah http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2464 Saylah Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:33:02 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2464 First time reader. I was pointed in this direction by someone commenting on my blog. Very interesting post and associated ideas. I'm high explorer and achiever. I think I happened to land the first time in a game that suited my play-style before I knew what one was or that I had one - that being AC1/AC2. WOW fit the same bill when I ventured there with it's complete freedom to choose how you level, which as it happens, was also extremely solo friendly. I've looked since those glory days and have come up short after trying every single major fantasy MMO release - bar none and no dice. These days I've given up on the pie in the sky or hope that lightening will strike a third time. I'm really willing to settle for just good enough and a close match to my play style. It's WAR or bust which doesn't leave me feeling very reassured that I will have a new MMO to play this year. Wow, this year. What a depressing thought should it not occur. First time reader. I was pointed in this direction by someone commenting on my blog. Very interesting post and associated ideas. I’m high explorer and achiever. I think I happened to land the first time in a game that suited my play-style before I knew what one was or that I had one – that being AC1/AC2. WOW fit the same bill when I ventured there with it’s complete freedom to choose how you level, which as it happens, was also extremely solo friendly.

I’ve looked since those glory days and have come up short after trying every single major fantasy MMO release – bar none and no dice. These days I’ve given up on the pie in the sky or hope that lightening will strike a third time. I’m really willing to settle for just good enough and a close match to my play style. It’s WAR or bust which doesn’t leave me feeling very reassured that I will have a new MMO to play this year. Wow, this year. What a depressing thought should it not occur.

]]> By: Elf http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2463 Elf Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:23:51 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2463 It's interesting that you write about how all RTS games get repetitive, because I think that is essentially the main point you make about MMOGs. It seems to me that the fundamental aspect of the RTS genre is resource management and that players who are looking for that gameplay will see the appeal in any good RTS game and continue to play the genre. Players who enjoy social or exploration could find appeal in MMORPGs, and other genres appeal to those who are attuned to them. I am drawn to good platformers and driving games, and will happily play a decent type of that game however old or new it is. Can you identify what it is about FPS games that brings you back time and again? Sometimes the thrill of a new game is present because its nature is fundamental to the genre, and sometimes we'll go back to our previous favourite because it simply did things better. It’s interesting that you write about how all RTS games get repetitive, because I think that is essentially the main point you make about MMOGs. It seems to me that the fundamental aspect of the RTS genre is resource management and that players who are looking for that gameplay will see the appeal in any good RTS game and continue to play the genre. Players who enjoy social or exploration could find appeal in MMORPGs, and other genres appeal to those who are attuned to them. I am drawn to good platformers and driving games, and will happily play a decent type of that game however old or new it is. Can you identify what it is about FPS games that brings you back time and again?

Sometimes the thrill of a new game is present because its nature is fundamental to the genre, and sometimes we’ll go back to our previous favourite because it simply did things better.

]]> By: Zoso http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2462 Zoso Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:04:30 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2462 Hoom. Other genres, good question... I did contemplate them a bit, but was rambling on quite long enough as was. I think MMOs are somewhat peculiar in being intended to last much longer than single player games, for the most part (though that said, I've been playing Guitar Hero 3 for seven months on and off, longer than a bunch of MMOs). RTS games, I played heavily for a while (Dune II, the original Warcraft, Command & Conquer), then they just got terribly same-y (build buildings, build units, rush enemy, repeat, still don't seem to be terribly different); FPS games, though, I'll quite happily keep going back to. And yes, brief EVE and Second Life dalliances apart, I've largely been going from <a href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/07/02/do-players-know-what-they-want/" rel="nofollow">chocolate ice cream to chocolate ice cream</a>, which probably isn't the best way of experiencing new things. But I do like chocolate ice cream... Hoom. Other genres, good question… I did contemplate them a bit, but was rambling on quite long enough as was. I think MMOs are somewhat peculiar in being intended to last much longer than single player games, for the most part (though that said, I’ve been playing Guitar Hero 3 for seven months on and off, longer than a bunch of MMOs). RTS games, I played heavily for a while (Dune II, the original Warcraft, Command & Conquer), then they just got terribly same-y (build buildings, build units, rush enemy, repeat, still don’t seem to be terribly different); FPS games, though, I’ll quite happily keep going back to.

And yes, brief EVE and Second Life dalliances apart, I’ve largely been going from chocolate ice cream to chocolate ice cream, which probably isn’t the best way of experiencing new things. But I do like chocolate ice cream…

]]> By: Van Hemlock http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2461 Van Hemlock Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:55:24 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2461 Oh, you know what I'm like...I expect I'll end up back in CoV long before all that :) Oh, you know what I’m like…I expect I’ll end up back in CoV long before all that :)

]]> By: Elf http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2460 Elf Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:50:10 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2460 Is your theory specific to MMO games, or does it apply to other genres of games too? I know that I still consider Super Mario Bros. to be the best platform game, and Paradroid and Wizball on the C=64 to be the best of whatever genre they fit in to, and will nearly always think back to them when playing a similar game to the point of firing up an emulator to play them again. The main draw to newer games within the same genre has generally been owing to advances in technology. The better graphics and sound of later generations of computers and consoles has been sufficient lure, and the available memory, both volatile and storage, has enabled more involving and immersive games to be created. I'm sure similar factors have evolved in MMOs, although there hasn't been the huge leap in quality that was experienced from growing up with 8-bit machines. EVE Online seems to me to be sufficiently different from the other MMOs that I've played that I don't strive to find the same thrills that World of Warcraft first instilled in me, because they simply aren't there. Instead, I find different thrills and goals, and the major differences in design are what is attracting me to play it further. I can see how playing a game that is at its basic level identical to the previous one will effectively fail, because rather than trying to adapt to the changes in the game it is more attractive to withdraw to the familiar system of the old game, where the same style of gameplay can still be enjoyed. Is your theory specific to MMO games, or does it apply to other genres of games too? I know that I still consider Super Mario Bros. to be the best platform game, and Paradroid and Wizball on the C=64 to be the best of whatever genre they fit in to, and will nearly always think back to them when playing a similar game to the point of firing up an emulator to play them again.

The main draw to newer games within the same genre has generally been owing to advances in technology. The better graphics and sound of later generations of computers and consoles has been sufficient lure, and the available memory, both volatile and storage, has enabled more involving and immersive games to be created. I’m sure similar factors have evolved in MMOs, although there hasn’t been the huge leap in quality that was experienced from growing up with 8-bit machines.

EVE Online seems to me to be sufficiently different from the other MMOs that I’ve played that I don’t strive to find the same thrills that World of Warcraft first instilled in me, because they simply aren’t there. Instead, I find different thrills and goals, and the major differences in design are what is attracting me to play it further.

I can see how playing a game that is at its basic level identical to the previous one will effectively fail, because rather than trying to adapt to the changes in the game it is more attractive to withdraw to the familiar system of the old game, where the same style of gameplay can still be enjoyed.

]]> By: Zoso http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2459 Zoso Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:26:21 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2459 I've made a bit of a stab at Guild Wars two or three times, but haven't managed to stick at it yet; still, it's always there, temptingly lacking a monthly fee... (Can something be both tempting and lacking? Anyway.) First, though, that nice Mr Sony has just sent a mail through saying my SWG account is active for the rest of the month, even though it was only a trial, so I might see if I can remember how to fly a Y-wing. If we don't manage anything else before, I'm starting to look forward to Warhammer Online, out of the corner of my eye with a slight squint to avoid being drawn wholesale into the terrifying hype machine, getting worked up into a frothing pitch of excitement then inevitably crushed by disappointment when tedious reality intervenes. Hopefully we can all hook up there, buckled hats and pyromaniac wizards all round. I’ve made a bit of a stab at Guild Wars two or three times, but haven’t managed to stick at it yet; still, it’s always there, temptingly lacking a monthly fee… (Can something be both tempting and lacking? Anyway.) First, though, that nice Mr Sony has just sent a mail through saying my SWG account is active for the rest of the month, even though it was only a trial, so I might see if I can remember how to fly a Y-wing.

If we don’t manage anything else before, I’m starting to look forward to Warhammer Online, out of the corner of my eye with a slight squint to avoid being drawn wholesale into the terrifying hype machine, getting worked up into a frothing pitch of excitement then inevitably crushed by disappointment when tedious reality intervenes. Hopefully we can all hook up there, buckled hats and pyromaniac wizards all round.

]]> By: Van Hemlock http://www.kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/comment-page-1/#comment-2458 Van Hemlock Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:42:47 +0000 http://kiasa.org/2008/07/04/a-series-of-unlikely-explanations/#comment-2458 You might be on to (or on) something there. My own MMO history is pretty much identical to Paragraph 2 up there, only I haven't gone back to my first MMO, but am still wandering. I forget my exact score, but am a very high percentage Explorer type. And am a Leo! Probably my longest played titles are indeed the ones where I've had, or have, regular groups in. I'm not sure that what you need right now, is *another* MMO, but if you do find yourself in Guild Wars, do get in touch! You might be on to (or on) something there. My own MMO history is pretty much identical to Paragraph 2 up there, only I haven’t gone back to my first MMO, but am still wandering.

I forget my exact score, but am a very high percentage Explorer type. And am a Leo!

Probably my longest played titles are indeed the ones where I’ve had, or have, regular groups in. I’m not sure that what you need right now, is *another* MMO, but if you do find yourself in Guild Wars, do get in touch!

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